Curse

Elrodien · Nov 02, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

because its one of the only good counters to the blockway layers rife in gvg atm?

Keithark · Nov 02, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

5) 3 monk backlines

this is too complicated. there are multiple threads discussing why we see 3 monkbacklines... splits involving SP sins, the effect of mend touch on the split meta, the effect of LOD on split meta, the hits to passive defense that have effected the defensive meta, over reliance on LoD and the effect on the defensive meta, the inability of 2 monk backlines to keep up with the ever increasing dmg in GvG, especially at VoD. You cant seriously stop people from running 3 monk backlines without seriously tackling a wide variety of issues plaguing game balance or without severely gimping monks so badly that running 3 is a bad idea.

This is easy fix...revert nerfs to paragon, poof 3 monk backlines gone

j/k my guild has stopped GvG due to lack of interest so all I can do now is try to farm gold but since loot scale that suxors too, could grind rank but nobody to do that with either because you have to be rank 6+ to get on a team that wants to seriously play and not run stupid crap, so maybe work on getting titles for PvE but that gets me nothing....geez why am I still playing this game there is nothing left worth a crap..... Wish GW2 would come out soon cause I can't find

Byron · Nov 02, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

probably too late and the changes won't reflect our opinions.

QFT.

567890

deluxe · Nov 02, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

I suggested somewhere that a buff to Life Sheath so that it casts faster and negates health loss and not just damage would make it a decent counter to blood spike. Buff to damage reduction? Maybe, but too big a buff there would break it, it's a fine line. A 1/2s cast would make it a decent spike counter, period. It could ease up Infuse dependency somewhat.

This is a good idea, the skill is useless at the moment, and there is nothing from the prot line that helps vs bspike.

Burton2000 · Nov 02, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

The thing with splinter is that it gives a team that usualy wouldnt have aoe in it say heavy physical some decent form of AoE combined nicely with ancestors. Wether this is a good thing or not I dont know.

assassin of the god · Nov 02, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Because splinter weapon and aoe in general is one of the few things that stops the game from going back to spike/blockway, away from the more pressure based metagame we have now

Kaon · Nov 02, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Nerfing monk backlines goes very deep into the system.

Basically 3monk backline means you have a monk runner. Back in the day you never saw these cause monks didnt have any speedbuffs.

A monk runner is now possible because

1) you don't need superhealparty spammer
2) They added ridiculous overpowered speedbuffs

I don't understand why they added pious haste, dash, and storm djinns, they only nerf skill in the game.

If they anally hurt those skills, perhaps the runners would be fixed again. This would also solve splinterweapon runner issues.

Snow Bunny · Nov 02, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Splinter weapon adds something to the game right now that I think is pretty good for the game.

It's the AI of the npcs, and if they could just be coded (I don't know programming, so sue me, I wouldn't know how this works) to spread out as they filed in for VoD, I think that'd be better than nerfing SW.

moriz · Nov 02, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

how to fix 3 monk backlines: make the monks more powerful, so people can actually run an offensively-oriented runner, instead of what amounts to a third monk.

Sentience · Nov 02, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Ineptitude and Clumsiness adjustment would be great, those skills really get under my skin very quickly. Hell, I wouldn't object to completely nerfing them out of the game.

Splinter Weapon is fine as it is, as I've always said and will continue to say, Splinter Weapon isn't the problem, the VoD mechanic and NPC-pathing is.

Zuranthium · Nov 02, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

It's the AI of the npcs, and if they could just be coded (I don't know programming, so sue me, I wouldn't know how this works) to spread out as they filed in for VoD, I think that'd be better than nerfing SW.

Yep, exactly. They should always be standing farther apart in the first place.

On several maps there simply isn't enough space to make such a thing happen, though (most especially Fire Isle, *gag*). NPCs shouldn't even be going to the flag stand. There should be some wide open area at least half a radar range away from the flagstand which serves as their grouping point. Such an idea would require every GvG map in the game to be changed, though (except maybe Nomad's), so I won't talk about it any further unless someone would like to discuss the subject. (although I will say that such a modification would be easy to make on Corrupted Isle...just fill in the empty gap between the bases with land and have the NPCs go there).

~Z

moriz · Nov 02, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

archers and bodyguards should collectively kite backwards if faced with any substantial AoE. that will work even on fire isle, since if you have some dervish going at them with splinter weapon active, he'll overextend rather badly.

essentially, give archers a third skill: storm chaser. then make them respond to AoE faster and have all of them kite backwards away from the AoE.

Seamus Finn · Nov 02, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how to fix 3 monk backlines: make the monks more powerful, so people can actually run an offensively-oriented runner, instead of what amounts to a third monk.

This wouldn't address monk runners at all, or depending on how you buff them, make them more attractive. People generally don't run a third monk(with the exception of LoD runners on a select few maps) for stand support, but for split support.

Also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

Want to nerf 3 monk backlines? Nerf BLS and buff healing prayers. It's as simple as that.

Sadly, this would also not change monk runners(unless there's some genius healing prayers buff I am not seeing) or instagib sins. There's already a trampling ox combo that doesn't require BLS, takes up the same amount of skills slots and does just about the same damage. It doesn't have the flexibility of impale, but as with all the awesomeness of SP sins, once a character screws up and hits 15dp they are basically dped out in the eyes of a sin spike.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 02, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how to fix 3 monk backlines: make the monks more powerful, so people can actually run an offensively-oriented runner, instead of what amounts to a third monk.

No.
An offensive runner doesn't keep your NPC's alive. In order for that to happen, the monks would need to be so strong that one can split away from the main team to defend the base. That would suck pretty hard if they're both at the stand (people not dying, at all, stuff like that) and I don't really think it's good for the game.

Personally, I don't understand what's izzy's problem with 3 monk backlines. Is a runner who uses Zealous Benediction to keep NPC's alive really that much worse than a runner who uses Blinding Flash, Weapon of Warding or Blurred Vision+shield of regen?

moriz · Nov 02, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

an offensive runner doesn't need to keep the npcs alive, since it can easily repel/kill a split with npc support. in such an instance, targettable healing from the offensive runner (something minor like restful or healing breeze) can do the job well enough. or that's what everyone did before, before they realized that it's easier to just pump npc health bars up instead of actively driving off the split.

Farin · Nov 02, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Should revert weapon of warding to what it was, E/Rt's <3.

I Angra I · Nov 02, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

The way to get rid of monk runners has nothing to do with actually nerfing monks, as I fear is what Izzy is planning to do by that list.

Make the SP sin combo less powerful, buff individual character heals like healsig and troll unguent, and buff things like weapon of warding back to how it used to be to give eles more viable ways to defend themselves and npcs. That way monk runners won't be so needed on the split or to defend a base.

Riotgear · Nov 02, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how to fix 3 monk backlines: make the monks more powerful, so people can actually run an offensively-oriented runner, instead of what amounts to a third monk.

A better thing to point to would be the Weapon of Warding nerf. E/Rt runners were able to be pretty offense-heavy when they could pack a good defense ability with relatively low investment.

Symbol · Nov 02, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I loved the shatterstone runner with pre-nerf WoW and Wielder's Boon. Shatterstone just felt really strong. I'd like to see that come back.

Yue · Nov 02, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Making troll unguent a 2s cast would be pretty awesome imo.